Bonobos founder Andy Dunn is again within the builder’s seat, engaged on an in-person social media platform referred to as Pie. However the greatest classes he realized from his $310 million Bonobos exit don’t have as a lot to do with entrepreneurship as they do with staying sane.
When Dunn was in school, he was recognized with bipolar dysfunction, however he didn’t get sufficient therapy till 2016, when he was hospitalized throughout a manic episode for the second time.
“The manic state is only a catastrophe — that’s like being in psychosis, , messianic delusions. … You’ll be able to’t accomplish something in that state,” Dunn mentioned onstage at TechCrunch Disrupt 2024. The incident was sufficient of a wakeup name that 16 years after his preliminary analysis, he lastly took his situation severely and began going to remedy, taking remedy, and monitoring his sleep.
Dunn wrote a e-book referred to as “Burn Fee: Launching a Startup and Shedding My Thoughts,” documenting the parallel processes of constructing Bonobos and determining the right way to settle for after which handle his bipolar dysfunction. However the classes from the e-book are relevant for entrepreneurs past these with Dunn’s analysis.
“All of us have psychological well being, proper? It doesn’t take a analysis to undergo or wrestle,” he mentioned.
Nonetheless, entrepreneurs are inclined to report a increased incidence of psychological well being points all through their lives than the typical particular person.
“There’s positively a correlation between neurodivergence and creativity,” he mentioned. “I don’t know if entrepreneurship attracts people who find themselves neurodivergent, or it makes them extra neurodivergent, however there’s actually some type of a virtuous and typically unvirtuous cycle there.”
That interaction between psychological sickness and entrepreneurship is much more palpable for Dunn, who says that the state of hypomania — the excessive of bipolar dysfunction, versus the crushing depressive intervals — may very well be conducive to operating a startup.
“Listed below are the DSM standards for [hypomania]: fast speech, elevated ideation, grandiosity, decreased want for sleep, means to be extra inventive … kind of the central casting traits of an entrepreneur having a great day,” he mentioned. “I used to be in a position to profit from that, however the value that I paid was finally too excessive. I used to be depressed with suicidal ideation for between two to 3 months a 12 months, after which finally, the complete mania and psychosis got here raging again, which was catastrophic.”
However even in an astonishingly productive hypomanic state, Dunn doesn’t assume he was the best boss or colleague. He mentioned that one of many negative effects of hypomania is changing into irritable when folks disagree with you, which is important to operating a collaborative firm. Now, operating Pie, Dunn welcomes this debate.
“Once we disagree, let’s go, let’s disagree much more, as a result of we’re going to have the ability to make a greater choice popping out of it,” he mentioned.
Whereas discussions about psychological well being have turn into extra mainstream, founders nonetheless fear concerning the stigma of showing a analysis to colleagues and buyers. Dunn is an adviser to the Founder Psychological Well being Pledge, which asks buyers to advocate for the psychological well being of the founders they put money into. However he’s not naive that the stigma remains to be current — when founders ask for his recommendation about when to reveal a psychological well being concern to buyers, he says to attend six weeks till after the deal closes.
“We raised $125 million at Bonobos — would you give $125 million to somebody who can both be psychotic or catatonically depressed?” Dunn mentioned. “But in addition, you shouldn’t do what I did and conceal it, as a result of then, , when there’s a disaster, it’s a shock.”
Dunn’s dialogue of his expertise with bipolar dysfunction doesn’t appear to have harm his means to fundraise, although — Pie simply raised a $11.5 million Sequence A. As public as he’s concerning the severity of bipolar dysfunction, he’s additionally open about how his routine of remedy and drugs have helped him stay a secure life.
“I deal with bipolar as my Olympic routine. For Simone Biles, it’s the right way to navigate and win the gold,” he mentioned. “For me, the gold medal is to die of one thing else, proper? As a result of the horrible factor about bipolar is the suicide price.”
Now, the following take a look at for Dunn is to do the work it takes to make Pie a hit with out sacrificing his stability.
“Right here’s the problem,” Dunn mentioned. “We wish to have good psychological well being, and we would like our groups to have stability in psychological well being, and but a 40-hour workweek doesn’t lower it. You’ll be able to’t change the world with a bunch of individuals working 40 hours every week.”
A method Dunn has navigated this fantastic line is to be open with job candidates about what the work will entail, in addition to how he’ll help them with firm advantages.
“I’ve a brand new spiel I give when recruiting, which is, this can be a 50- to 60-hour-per-week job, and in return, you’re going to get two superior issues. One, you’re going to be taught extra and develop extra and develop extra. Two, you’ve acquired fairness,” he mentioned.
Like every startup chief, Dunn desires his workforce to work exhausting, however he believes there’s a approach to try this with out it backfiring. In describing his time at Bonobos in “Burn Fee,” Dunn writes, “I got here to a traditional mistaken conclusion of an immature startup founder: if the enterprise isn’t working, then we should not be working exhausting sufficient.”
There’s no denying that founders must work exhausting — however caring for oneself is a part of that tough work.
